IR compatibility

General
1

Good afternoon. New here, I have just received my remote and dock after the kickstarter campaign and trying to get my head around it. I have so far made some progress but the interface is obviously taking time getting used to and the integration database is a bit disappointing coming from a Logitech Harmony Pro 2400 with the PoE hub. I would like to clarify a few general issues and I would appreciate some help with the basics.

  1. I have a stereo system in my lounge - DAC, amplifier etc., a home theatre system in a dedicated rack in another room, some HUE lights. My understanding is that direct IP control via integrations is the most reliable. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

  2. Second best is Home assistant integration running HA integrations on a dedicated server which I am now in the process of building for my Lyngdorf preamp, my HD Fury VRROOM switch etc.

  3. The third option (and it seems the one getting the least amount of love here) is IR control via docks and / or remote control. I understand that the IR dock blasters do not work out of the box and one has to install the Global Cache IR before being able to use them as blasters, with or without separate IR blasters plugged in the individual ports.

Now I have some very specific stereo hardware. I have a Gryphon integrated which will need IR. I have a three box dCS DAC consisting of the DAC itself, a streamer and a clock. I have the IR codes for each of these boxes but I am not quite sure how to load the IR code database and I can’t seem to find a guideline. My understanding is that I need to download a csv table on the remote but there is no clear guidance about how this table should be formatted. The dCS database offers IR codes in RC5 format. I have seen elsewhere the NEC1 format. The raw format. The Pronto format. What format should be used for loading IR codes and how many columns should the csv table have?

Also, as the docks have serial outputs on 3.5mm jacks, has anybody figured out how to connect the 3.5mm dock jack to say my serial RS232 interface on my Lyngdorf MP60? Does this adapter cable exist? Would it work by simply plugging it into the dock at one end, the Lyngdorf at the other and programming the serial interface? How does one activate and program the serial interface on UC remotes.

I apologise for the long winded post and some of my questions might have been addressed elsewhere but any help with any of the points above would be much appreciated.

Many thanks
Dan

2
  1. Global Cache not necessarily needed. Unfolded circle has several generic IR code sets for popular brands.

RS232 is planned not ready yet.

If a device has an IP API the requests (http) integration might help.

Btw. Here a list of known integrations Supported devices

Ralf

3

I don’t think the serial interface has been implemented yet.

4

Welcome to fun!

In your situation, I would probably start with IR first for all your devices as a baseline and then start looking into other options like Home Assistant and integrations.

For the Gryphon and dCS, you could start with creating blank Ir entities (i.e. without using any of the IR profiles coming with the remote) and try learning one or two commands using the original remotes to see if they work in principle. If you want to speed up the process, you can look into e.g. the GlobalCache database ( Database | Global Caché Control Tower ) and bulk upload entire IR code sets. I had a quick look at their databse and they have codes for multiple dCS devices.

As a next step, you can start looking into other options. E.g.for my Lyngdorf TDAI 1120, I have created buttons using RedNode in Home Assistant which are then mapped to buttons on the remote. Alternatively, the http custom integration (GitHub - kennymc-c/ucr2-integration-requests: A network multi tool integration for Unfolded Circle remote devices) works as well.

5

Thank you for everyone’s advice so far.

I have two docks, the original plan being to get one inside the AV cabinet and the other one in the lounge to control the stereo system.

The issue with the cabinet - Oppo, HD Fury, Lyngdorf, my projector etc. is that they will all need IR blasters if I go down this road. As they are inside a cabinet, rack mounted, protected by a glass door, I will basically need individual blasters. About four of them, discounting Oppo which has an integration available.

I will not be able to fit the dock between the glass door and the front of the rack and, because it’s on a hallway, I will not be able to place it in front of the cabinet either. So I have two 3.5mm outputs on the dock and I would have to figure out how to connect four blasters to it. I think Logitech has some doubles and triples but I am not sure if they are compatible.

dCS is a PITA. It has a big, chunky aluminium remote control which could qualify as a blunt weapon. It emits four different IR codes simultaneously. The full stack includes the DAC, the clock, the streamer and the SACD transport, each with its individual IR codes. Each component is controlled by this remote. When you press the power button on the remote, the whole stack powers on at the same time. Trying to teach a Harmony to fire up the stack resulted in always learning the “on” command for the DAC only and understandably ignoring the others. So I assume that the original remote sends the IR code for the DAC first, followed by the others.

To be honest, this was one of the main reason for getting the UC remote, I could never get this stack to play ball with the Harmony. I also had this annoying issue with the latest ATV 4K which required an extra button press to go to sleep, which was never implemented by Logitech, whether controlling it with IR or bluetooth.

I hope that ATV will work without issues with the UC integration but I will have to figure out the dCS stack.

As for the AV cabinet, I would understandably much prefer not to hang strings of blasters in the cabinet and use IP control instead. I saw that HA has integrations for the Lyngdorf processor and my HD Furry, I have the Oppo UC integration and I will have to figure out the rest using your suggestions above.

One question left unanswered: what IR code format is supported by UC and how should the csv file look like? Will it work with RC5 (dCS), NEC1 (Lyngdorf) etc.? Do I have to figure out how to convert these formats to Pronto or raw (I assume that they are different)? Does UC support a specific IR code formatting?

Many thanks again

6

For your AV cabinet I am wondering if one IR blaster (not the IR extender) is enough to reach all devices. Or use both IR blasters with one dock.

Below an IR code set from the GlobalCache database for the Lyngdorf MP-50 but it should work for the MP-60 as well as they seem to use the same codes. You should be able to directly import the file to your remote:

The GlobalCache database also contains IR code sets for several dCS devices (see below). Probably worthwhile trying them out:

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EDIT: The remote accepts IR codes in HEX and Pronto format. The best way to get codes onto the remote is to obtain them for sources like the GlobalCache database or learn them with the original remote. There have been instances with some specific manufacturer codes that did not work with the R3 but I did not have any problems with my devices.

7

A few weeks ago I searched for HD Fury and found that they have quite a simple API which should work with the requests integration

I think it was Text over TCP which might work.

Ralf

8

Understood, thank you again. I will try to fiddle with it this weekend. I downloaded the relevant files and will give it a go.

9

Good news, an integration for HD Fury is now available, many thanks to developers.

One to go - Lyngdorf MP60!

10

Just curious, did you manage to sort out the IR codes for the dCS devices?

The Lyngdorf should work with IR and probably the http integration:

11

Frankly, I wasted my time playing with a Raspberry Pi. The plan was to install a NVME & PoE HAT and then run Home Assistant on it. Unfortunately what sounded like an easy task ended up being a three day troubleshooting headache to eventually realise that the HAT was defective (typical Chinese workmanship with bad soldering resulting in PCB damage). I wanted HA specifically for the Lyngdorf and HD Fury integrations but I think I will abandon that project altogether and focus on getting the remote up and running.

For now I have collected and installed on the remote the various integrations relevant to my system but I have not run the individual set up yet because I have to reserve a pool of IP addresses and assign static mappings for the AV components. Something I have done in the past but lately I got lazy and let them run on DHCP leases. I also need to connect my JVC projector to my network switch and I did not have a Ethernet cable of adequate length.

Once the static addresses for about 20 devices including Roon are set up I will then try to get the individual integrations up and running. After this step is completed I will be left with figuring out the Lyngdorf processor (I will try my luck with the http integration but, if I fail miserably at it, I will get one of the docks inside the cabinet and use a IR blaster to control it), the projector screen, the Gryphon integrated and the dCS stack.

Honestly, it is a lot of work and it requires above average IT skills so I don’t see UC being a huge success with the average Joe. Which is a pity because it’s a thing of beauty and if I do get the stereo, AV, Roon integration etc. working it will be quite a unique control interface, miles better than the best Harmony remotes and probably only matched by the very expensive Crestron, Control4 & Co. servers which cost orders of magnitude more.

It’s regrettable that it has been a niche product for years unlike Harmony so the database of supported devices is underwhelming. I tried to buy one on their website for years but it was never available. Hopefully with the huge success of their current Kickstarter campaign, as significant funds are unlocked for development and the customer base increases exponentially, more work will be done on this front in the future.

Anyway one thing at a time. I will keep you updated.

12

Agree. At the moment, it is not easy to set up if you are not interested in fiddling around with different platforms and technologies. I am actually enjoying it and learned a lot along the way. But it is not for everyone.

The http request integration is reasonably straightforward to set up:

  • Install the http request custom integration
  • Go through the set up process and select the “text over tcp” component (you don’t need the other ones for the Lyngdorf)
  • Add the “text over tcp” entity to an activity
  • Select the “text over tcp” command when customising buttons
  • Add the following in the source field for e.g. the volume up command [youripaddress]:[port],“!VOLUP0x0D”
  • The IP commands for the MP60 might be slightly different and are document in Lyngdorf‘s external control manual

Good luck.

13

Understood, thank you for this. It sounds reasonable as at a basic level I will only need to power it on / off, switch to the correct HDMI input, control the volume. If I manage to get this working it will be a good start.

I suspect even Vivaldi can be run in a similar fashion because the streamer is controlled by their app (Mosaic) or Roon and can also control the DAC to which it is connected through a RS232 cable. The only component of the stack without IP control is the clock.

14

Right. Another update and I would like this to be a guide for people who are starting on this journey like myself.

After assigning static IP addresses to every component in the system, I proceeded with the Integrations.

I installed the new integration for HDFury - no issues. Oppo - it installed alright but I had to also activate the Network standby from the player’s setttings (obviously but not obvious that the player defaults to Energy Efficient). I then decided to activate the live update function on the remote (as in seeing the progress bar of whatever you are playing on the remote) and that lead to the remote itself becoming unstable so I disabled this function for now.

The Zidoo integration was straightforward.

Apple TV has to be turned on as, in the process of pairing, it will generate some codes which grant access to the device from UC but, apart from figuring that up (which again was not obvious), it was painless.

The JVC integration was a pain, I reached out to the developer, logs, an update but it was failure after failure. In the end it seems that the latest line of projectors has to have a network password set up, otherwise it can’t connect to the integration. So the projector is now integrated as well (presumably).

With the Lyngdorf MP60 I took a break from UC and decided to build a Pi HA server. This took a while because I planned to use a PoE HAT which turned out to be defective, I had to return it, order another etc.

Now HA is a whole different can of worms with a daunting menu and a very unintuitive interface, coming from Harmony & Co. Nothing is obvious, everything has to be researched. There are a couple of “official” integrations as we have here but to install something from the GitHub and if you don’t want to play with a console (I don’t), one has to also install HACS (the HA “community” store) and create a GitHub account. Even then the Lyngdorf integration is not readily available but one has to use a custom link to install it.

Did I mention that a 16Gb RAM Rasp Pi loaded with HA, in a case, with a NVME HAT, costs well over 100ÂŁ on its own?

Now the Lyngdorf is seen by the HA server and, once the HA integration for UC was also installed on the remote, the various HA commands become available on the remote.

Also worth keeping in mind that most of these integrations are created by third party developer who do this just for fun and, as they are a work in progress, there is a good chance that they might not work quite as intended. My experience with Oppo is telling.

Now, with all this more or less out of the way (and assuming all these IP controlled devices will behave as intended, something I haven’t been able to test yet), we are getting to the IR control of my lounge system: the Gryphon integrated, the dCS stack, the Grandview screen.

And I have again a question. Assuming that I find all the codes and get everything set up, what part of the UC system actually blasts the IR signals? The remote, the hubs or does one have to plug-in the 3.5mm blasters into one of the docks?

I was also wondering - the Grandview screen is essentially remote controlled but one can use the RJ12 6P6C connector on the screen to access it through a RS485/RS232 serial interface. Anybody has any experience with a third party serial controller accepting this RJ12 input, preferably PoE powered, which can be set up and IP controlled by either the UC system or the HA server?

Sorry for the long message but setting up this remote control is not for the faint of heart!

15

It is a fun journey, isn‘t it :laughing:

Regarding IR entities, you can define the output device: dock, blaster or both or the remote itself. It all depends on the placement of your devices. However, the output from the dock is relatively weak and much better with the blaster. Just make sure you connect the blaster when the dock is not connected to the power supply.

Just curious, do you have link to the Lyngdorf integration you mention above?

16

Thanks for the info, in that case it’s tempting to use the HA integration for the Harmony hub which has served me well all these years!

As for the Lyngdorf MP60 HA integration, here you go

17

Give the IR blaster a try, it is actually quite good in my experience.

Thanks for the link to the to the Lyngdorf MP60 integration. Unfortunately, it does not work with the TDAI 1120, but I have asked the developer if there is a chance to modify it.

18

I have wasted a lot of time trying to find working codes for Vivaldi.

The Scarlatti codes work, more or less but the inputs are different so not all functions work as expected with Vivaldi. The basic power toggles for DAC and upsampler work. Switching to certain inputs works. Mute / unmute works. Volume control works.

The clock is a pain - the Harmony power toggle for the Scarlatti clock DOES NOT work with the Vivaldi clock, instead it power cycles the DAC.

The Global cache code however for the Scarlatti clock power toggle seems to work, as long as I press it twice in quick succession. On Logitech, this would be a Repeat adjustment. Not sure how this is going to work with UC.

I have also posted in the dCS forum to enquire if their developers would consider releasing the IR code data set for their various products in raw rather than RC5 and / or consider an integration with HA or UC. I am pretty sure the answer will be negative but who knows. Particularly a dCS upsampler integration with UC or HA and Roon would be amazing but I will not hold my breath.

Still trying to figure out how HA integrations work with UC so I am watching some YouTube videos ATM.

And still hoping a developer might at some point port the HA Lyngdorf MP60 integration directly onto the UC platform so I can bypass the HA server altogether (or use it for other things - air filters, lights etc). But the fact that the UC remotes have been around for years and so far we only have a Trinnov and a Denon integration as far as AV processors go does not fill me with confidence.

19

Have a look at the „IR command“ and „IR sequence“ options for IR entities. When you add an IR entity to an activity you should see these two options. An IR sequence allows you to send multiple commands with one button press. You need to manually type in the IR commands separated by a comma. IR command let‘s you define the number of repeats for a command (which you again need to type in manually).

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EDIT: This post might be helpful to convert RC5 codes to Pronto:

20

Amazing heimspielvier, thank you for this. I would have never figured it out on my own.

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