Is the Unfolded Circle Remote a successor to Pronto? Unfortunately, no

General
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I have now spent another week trying to set up the R2 so that it can replace my Pronto—unfortunately without success.
The software isn’t really much further along than it was when I first tried it—when the R2 was delivered. Since I hope to receive the R3 soon, I thought I would practice with the R2.
Unfortunately, it was another big disappointment, but at least it’s better than the Neeo—but that’s not saying much.
The Pronto is still clearly superior in all configuration aspects. Looking at the development progress over the last two years, I fear that this will remain the case for a long time to come. The progress is so marginal and takes so long that I have actually lost hope of ever being able to replace my Pronto.
Unfortunately, my assessment is also confirmed by the long list of bugs and the slow pace at which they are being worked through.

What is not encouraging is the lack of any roadmap, or its maintenance.

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Yes, I too have spent significant time setting up the R3 but to be honest it’s a bit flakey.

Sometimes things run beautifully, I make a small change things become erratic. I hope this thing doesn’t turn into a sort of White Elephant.

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Just a little unreliable? It feels like something suddenly isn’t working again, the user interface freezes, a strange error message appears… a feature still hasn’t been implemented, etc. Just when you think you’ve made progress, something else is missing—it’s totally frustrating.
The lack of a roadmap isn’t helpful, even if it was never adhered to anyway.

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They actually do have a roadmap - Roadmap

Yes, when things aren’t working correctly it can get frustrating. But remember this is a very small company. And we paid for a kickstart campaign, not a finished product.

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Yes, it’s a small company.
Yes, it’s a Kickstarter campaign.
We paid for a finished product. That’s how it was advertised:

“Remote 3 is our next generation remote that can control a wide range of devices, via infrared, Bluetooth or through your local network. It even talks to your home automation hub and provides a unified interface for controlling everything in your home. Remote 3 works fully locally without subscriptions. With it you can potentially replace all your other remotes and do even more.”

For a roadmap to be perceived as a roadmap, it must include:

  • Goals and visions: What should be achieved?
  • Milestones: Important stages on the way to the goal.
  • Schedule: When should which steps be taken?
  • Resources: What resources are needed?
  • Dependencies: Which tasks are interdependent?
  • Status: Progress or current phase of the project.

I can’t find anything about it, except what would like to be achieved.

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Finished does not mean that everything in the whole world works. My remotes work 99% perfect for a year now.

Ralf

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It’s great that it suits some people the way it is, and I’m happy for them. But it doesn’t suit me; maybe I’m a little spoiled by Pronto. However, one should be able to expect that current technology and modern programming environments can achieve at least what Pronto has been able to do for 20 years.

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If you are unhappy then just sell the remote and move on. Or you could contribute by helping the various developers with improving integrations etc.

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@MMinehan, have I ever said anything about missing or improvable integrations? No.
I have spoken about missing or non-functioning basic features and insufficiently stable operation, which is a fact.
Apart from that, I don’t think you are in a position to dictate to anyone in this forum what they should or should not do.

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I have struggled with it as well and I had three weeks from hell. But I was fortunate to have quite a few integrations available for my devices, either directly or via Home Assistant. After some back and forth and direct discussions with developers on Discord, I managed to achieve reliable IP control for my stack 90% of the time.

The disappoint part for me so far has been the IR performance. Half of the time my screen doesn’t come down, the integrated amplifier doesn’t switch on and don’t get me started about the dCS stack. However, to be fair, I have had very little time to troubleshoot IR once the IP control was set up. I have actually acquired a Global Cache hub recently because it seems to be compatible with UC and I am hoping for a more reliable performance than UC’s own hub which so far has been a work in progress with poor IR range and frequent disconnects despite hardwired connection to my switch.

There is also the lack of a IR library and hit and miss compatibility with various IR encoding standards.

So if you primarily use IR to control your system, I completely understand and share your frustration. I continue to use my Harmony on a regular basis to control the devices UC has failed to wake up. I think the main appeal for UC comes from its IP control ability and compatibility with HA.

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What the heck is Pronto? This Palm Pilot thing?

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What makes this superior?

Also, are you using your remote with IR commands or IP control? Shouldn’t make a difference because both require Wi-Fi, but I’m still curious.

Thanks for that link! Helpful to other folks like me too :wink:.

I couldn’t sign up for updates through the newsletter though. Even that doesn’t work :cry::

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Here’s the roadmap that’s up there today:

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I agree with @Dani, not one of these items is a schedule or something where you can figure out the priority.

Also, I don’t see anything about “fix Wi-Fi, so it always stays connected”. That’s the solution to most of our issues. Sadly, that will probably kill battery life, but it’s a tradeoff. Next, they can fix battery life when Wi-Fi is always-on.

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@Sawtaytoes

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What makes this superior?

  • The screen and buttons always work—with no lag
  • Everything just works—no freezes, no strange error messages—and it does so consistently, every day, every week
  • The battery lasts more than a week
  • The programming is a dream. No fixed layout; everything can be configured to suit your needs
  • Everything is simply intuitive to use
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I had one of these 20 years ago and it was good (IR and RF). That said I think they stopped making them about 2010 and they were expensive. I moved from the Pronto to Harmony and was very happy with that for a long time. Then they went our of production. For me personally the UC R3 has been a superior replacement for my Harmony as all of my devices can be controlled over IP and while I admit the setup took me a while to get right the screen always works. I don’t have any lag. I don’t have freezes or strange error messages. I don’t care about the battery lasting for a week I always recharged my remotes every night and it must still be simple to use as my completely non tech savvy wife uses it happily every day. Seems everyone has different experiences based on their use cases. If you only want an IR remote just get a Sofabaton X2.

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The roadmap only lists planned features and no bug fixes. Media browsing is available in the latest beta. As priority often changes to fix more important bugs the roadmap probably doesn’t show dates anymore. The did sort them by month in the beginning.
You can find most of all bug reports and feature requests on UCs feature and bug tracker on GitHub.
There is an option to keep the remote connected to WiFi in standby. If this doesn’t work for you should create a support ticket via mail or on GitHub.

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I think coming from a Pronto or a Harmony there is an expectation from a universal remote control: the “universal” part. You expect a smooth software experience and a comprehensive database of supported devices. UC has neither.

UC’s interface makes sense once you become familiar with it but becoming familiar with it takes a lot of time and effort and there are no manuals or guides - it’s all left to enthusiast videos posted on YouTube.

There is also no database to speak of. There is no IR library. You can’t just type in a brand name and select your device from a list. It’s your job to find the IR codes and hope that they are compatible.

The IP control side is also underwhelming. The integrations are not created by the company but by independent volunteers who don’t get paid a penny for their work. If tomorrow Jack Powell or MaSe would find better things to do rather than charity work for this small community, the number of available integrations would drop to a single digit number. What happens when Jack Powell and MaSe do find better things to do?

Unlike HA, UC is not an open platform. It is not a free platform. 419€ at current RRP plus import taxes is not small change and for that money most people would expect at least the same level of support as a Harmony or a Sofabaton which also happen to cost significantly less. Yes, UC is superior in some ways but I still find the IR performance / compatibility lacking and the number of available integrations underwhelming. Keeping in mind that the platform has been around for what, 4-5 years? one would expect significantly more and a lot better.

I personally got to a point where R3 can now replace my Harmony but I can see plenty of people struggling and all but the most IT savvy struggling to set this up, troubleshoot, debug and get it to work reliably. So yes, the praise is well deserved because this is the only sensibly priced alternative to installer level stuff which can do installer level stuff at a sensible price but I think the criticism from the average Joe who just wants to set it up in five minutes and forget about it, Harmony style, is also well deserved.

The manufacturer should be transparent about what UC does and what it doesn’t. About what it offers and what is left to the user to figure out. If one is willing to spend time and check the Discord channel, support documentation, videos etc you can get a pretty clear picture but that shouldn’t be necessary if the team was honest about what it offers for 419€: a work in progress which might progress in the future or might go the way of the dodo.

Again, I agree that for me and for my system UC is now a better remote than my Harmony 2400 Pro. But is there room for progress? Yes, massive room for progress starting with, for instance, supporting all the various IR protocols that can not be translated in Pronto or Raw. Or having a IR database Harmony - like in the first place. But, save for paying the big bucks for a C4, I can’t think of any alternative that can do what UC does, that can control as many devices directly or via HA, allowing the same level of customisation without paid access to a platform / installer and costing under a grand.

Would I buy one again if my R3 dies? Probably. Would I get the R4 when it comes out? Most likely, especially if it addresses the one major flaw as far as I am concerned - the wifi performance or lack of. But do I understand the criticism? Absolutely and I think it is deserved as much as the praise. UC should do better after 5 years on the market and those developers should get paid for the work they do because without them there would be no control, only a remote platform. And for the vast number of devices which are not supported with integrations on the platform, probably better to keep your Harmony or SofaBaton.

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That’s not true. There is an included (small) IR database wehere you can search for a brand.

Also not true. The included integrations like for example Apple TV, Android TV, Hue, HA are developed by UC. Most of them are open source like the community integrations. They can be forked by anyone if the original maintainers can’t/wan‘t to do this anymore.

What means open for you? As mentioned above most software parts are open source just like HA. There are now even mods for the remote ui with custom screensavers.

What number are you comparing it to? To my knowledge there are currently 93 custom community integrations. Comparing this to HA is unfair as these platforms have not the same user base and HA exists for a longer time.

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I did not find any of my devices on their (small) database. Not even one. If I wouldn’t have had my Harmony to teach UC the codes I would have not been able to control my projector screen, my amp etc. and currently I am still not able to control my DAC. Not every buyer of the R3 has a Harmony to learn the IR codes.

Apple TV, Android TV, Hue, Denon and Sonos are not “examples” - they are really the only integrations developed by the company and I wouldn’t really call this list “universal”. Would you? If all the integrations available on the platform would be the ones developed by the company, we would not have a universal remote. We would have a Sonos remote, a Hue remote and a TV remote for Apple / Android. The end. As far as I know the HA integration is actually developed by Jack Powell. Without the “community” wasting time at weekends to develop the other 90 integrations (are there really 90?) there would be hardly any integrations to speak of.

“Most” software parts is not open source. And I think it is very fair to compare what this platform offers to HA since HA is free for all and once you get for instance a GlobalCache network adapter (with a serial interface which works unlike UC’s own docks - promised feature since launch but, as far as I know, still not implemented) you are very much good to go with 400€ left in your pocket. It might not look as fancy as the aluminium R3 but you do pay a pretty penny for the premium look.

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There are 10 integrations developed by UC and included in the firmware. Jacks HA integration is a Hacs Add-on for the HA side and the UC HA integrations can work without this.
I think it’s a good idea that UC is concentrating on developing the core and frontend. Isn’t that the same
concept as HA? At least right now with just 2 software developers it makes more sense to me.
Making everything open source, even the hardware while still selling remotes, paying all employees and handling support cases could invite competitors to sell cheap rip-offs (especially from Asia). What are you really missing here and can‘t do right now?

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RC5 IR code support which is why I can’t control my DAC. A working serial interface which is supposed to be supported by the docks and is fairly common in the AV world. That would be another way to control my DAC. That is to name two issues I have right now.

Now read what I said above. I CAN use R3. I am using it. I got to the point where I can keep my Harmony as back up only. Would I prefer a C4 with a dedicated, hard-wired server? Absolutely but neither at the retail price, nor depending on an engineer paid by the hour to set it up.

So UC is as close as I could get to a C4 system without paying the premium and the setup fees on top (thousands) and I fully and openly admit that. But I also understand the criticism. I don’t think you should be overly defensive about UC because the many people who complain about the IR performance, wifi performance, stability issues, bugs, universal support etc do have a point. I personally see the good but I also see the bad. I decided that, for me, the good outweighs the bad so I have invested my cash and my time in making this work for me and it does most of what I need it to do. But it will not be for everyone and, in fact, I can see more buyers failing to set this remote up and use it than succeeding because getting there is a journey and not everybody has the time, the knowledge and the patience to complete the process.

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Now full disclosure: when I received my R3 (I had been on the waiting list to buy a R2 for 9 months but none were available) I had no idea what HA was. I needed a remote control for a complex AV system with projector, screen, video processor, AV preamp, sources, amps, a high end stereo DAC stack (DAC, streamer, clock) plus various video players. I did not need a Hue remote because I had my Hue remotes. I did not need to fiddle with shutters or thermostats or air filters or anything else like that.

So receiving the remote without doing a proper research and finding out that half of my AV system was not supported with either IR codes (no library and no compatible IR codes available because a lot of the high end audio uses RC5) or integrations and the serial interface was not operational was a bit of a disappointment to put it mildly.

Then, after weeks of research, I found out HA had integrations for some of my stuff so, before getting serious about setting up the R3, I had to build a HA server from scratch. Got a Pi 5 which I had never used before, went through three different HATs until I found one with PoE and M2 support that actually worked, found a aluminium case to accommodate both, installed HA, set it up with the integrations I needed etc. Before I even touched R3 it took me a couple of weeks just to get a working HA server with the device support I needed.

And then I started to fiddle with the remote itself. By the time I became familiar with it (again, a couple of wasted weekends because I work like everyone else during the week) more integrations became available and, eventually, I was able to shut down the HA server altogether. All this took over a month of work (probably more like 6 weeks) and not an insignificant amount of additional money for the HA server which I had not planned and I no longer use.

Can everyone do this, afford to do this, have the time to do this? Probably not. For those who do, R3 can work. But any potential customers do need to know that this is what they are expected to do if they want to use a R3. There is a learning curve, zero documentation and nobody to teach them except for some YouTube videos. There is a list of about 100 supported devices and, if their system is not on that list, they might be better off with Harmony or SofaBaton. And even if it is, it is not as simple as selecting a device from a database because there is no database (OK, there is a small database).